377. Charitable Impact with John Bromley

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John Bromley: 

Everyone listening to this podcast cares about something changing, and I really want to encourage everyone listening just to take some time and think about what that is. Identify a short list of what that is and push yourself as to whether or not it's truly genuine. And then just take some small steps to do something about creating some change for that.

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Hello and welcome to The Daily Helping with Dr. Richard Shuster, food for the brain, knowledge from the experts, tools to win at life. I'm your host, Dr. Richard. Whoever you are, wherever you're from, and whatever you do, this is the show that is going to help you become the best version of yourself. 

Each episode, you will hear from some of the most amazing, talented, and successful people on the planet who followed their passions and strived to help others. Join our movement to get a million people each day to commit acts of kindness for others. Together, we're going to make the world a better place. Are you ready? Because it's time for your Daily Helping. 

Thanks for tuning into this episode of The Daily Helping Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Richard. And I am so excited to share our guest with you today. As founder and CEO of Charitable Impact, an online giving platform, John Bromley's visionary leadership and innovation have indelibly reshaped the charitable sector in Canada. He has been challenging the status quo and advocating for greater access education and dialogue ever since. 

Charitable Impact has proudly facilitated more than $1.2 billion in donations and is helping tens of thousands discover their innate generosity. Pursue their vision for change and transform their giving habits. John's very well known. He's also a two-time TEDx speaker, a business in Vancouver, 40 under 40 winner, a soccer coach, and a doting father of two kids. What more could one want? 

John, we're here. I'm excited to talk to you. Welcome to The Daily Helping. It is great to have you with us. 

John Bromley: 

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here, Dr. Richard. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Absolutely. So I'm excited to talk to you about Charitable Impact, why you created it, the whole deal, but I want to even jump back further. I want to hop in the John Bromley time machine and take us back to what was that seminal sequence of events that put you on the journey you're on today.

John Bromley: 

One of the things that stands out for me was being in one of my earliest professional jobs and recognizing that it wasn't for me. And it took some courage actually at the time to admit that to myself and look for what could be next. And the courage part was just it was a good job. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:

And what were you doing at the time? 

John Bromley:

I was learning a lot -- I was working in a corporate finance setting determining what companies were worth, how much they were worth, and these would be publicly traded companies. So trying to determine whether or not at their current price, people should buy old or sell them. And so it was a role that I learned a lot in, but it wasn't quite right for me for all sorts of different reasons. And when I left that job, it started my journey on what was a pretty long path to eventually starting charitable impact 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

And I presume your old job, it's not like you just woke up one day and said, I'm going to start doing valuations for publicly traded companies. You obviously had kind of you had training, you had experience, you probably earned a degree or two getting to this point. 

And so when you made this decision to walk away, and I imagine that also wasn't something that you just woke up one day and you're like, I'm out. It had probably been eating at you a little bit day by day by day. When you finally made that decision to leave, what was the thing? So two questions. One, what was the thing that finally pushed you to quit? And number two, what was the reaction of all of the people in your circle, your friends or family when you said, yeah, screw it. I'm done. Like, what was that like? 

John Bromley: 

Well, you're absolutely right that decisions like this, at least this decision or in my life don't get made overnight. So I didn't wake up with an epiphany and storm into the office and quit. I mean, the answer to your first question was actually had a really supportive manager, a very supportive boss who knew me, cared about me. I think more than many managers I've had understood my strengths and weaknesses and of which there are many on the weakness side anyways. 

And we had a lot of discussions about whether or not the role was right for me. And she was really supportive in terms of helping me identify other things that I could do. And I thought that was really cool. And it also changed my lens on management. And I was really young at the time. So it was a nice thing to have happen. And what it changed my lens on is that it's okay to be able to talk to your boss about this. I mean, so many times I think people think like, gee, if I ever talked to my boss about something that might be counter to what you perceive to be the best interests of the company, they're just going to fire you on the spot. And when you think about that as human, you're like, that's a pretty ridiculous reaction in most scenarios. So, and so it actually doesn't happen. 

And when it showed me it was okay to talk about those types of things and the value I got from the conversation, some of the compassion and direction I got from the conversation, it really opened my eyes to, I think human sort of human led leadership, which I'm a fan of. So yeah, it was a really good experience for me actually. Dr. Richard, pardon me, what was your second question? 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

The second question? Yeah. It was you walked away from something that you had invested some time, energy, and probably money getting to that point. What was the reaction of those around you when you walked away from it? 

John Bromley: 

Right. Well, at the time I was living with my girlfriend, who's now my partner in life, and she saw me every day. And I used to work really hard. I mean, these are 12-hour days. So I think on one hand, the people who know me best, the reaction was relief. Right. They sort of said, geez. Like, actually, I remember about six months after leaving, I think both my mom and my now wife said, I think you're back. As in I hadn't been myself at least for the ending part of this job and that they thought the sort of the real John, the John that they expected to see was back.

And so I guess, partly, I think one answer to your question is just say, oh, they were really supportive and it was true that they were supportive, but I think the more important answer was that so many times, the people that know us and love us the most actually know what's going on with us. And when you veer off a path that they expect you to be on, they know.

And probably in hindsight, I should have been talking to them more about it. I'm the type of person who likes to internalize things. I don't know if that's because I'm me or if that's because I'm a man or a Canadian. I'm not sure where it necessarily comes from. But that was one of the times in my life when you look back --

Dr. Richard Shuster:

Classic Canadian internalizer.

John Bromley:

Classic Canadian internalizer. But it was one of the times in my life where in hindsight in particular, kind of going, geez, like why aren't I more in touch with the people around me who love me the most to ask for support and you sort of kick yourself at that moment. And the other thing I think also is you know if that wasn't me, and it was, for example, my partner going through, I would have necessarily wanted her to be reaching out to me to support her through it but humans are humans, 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Humans are humans, and Canadians are Canadians. So let's jump forward through the timeline a little bit. So how did we get from that decision? I'm done evaluating the worth of big companies to what you started in the massive impact you're having now. 

John Bromley: 

So I was -- so the work I do now at Charitable Impact is about enabling and facilitating donors. And it's really focused on helping donors, enabling and facilitating donors to get on their giving journey and to carry it out. Right. Regardless of what causes they care about, what charities they ultimately choose to give to, and even how much money they give away. Right. So it's really about -- it's sort of a banking type of role for the donor. 

Now, without getting into that, back to your question, a couple of things happened. First, I had a clean slate, right? And so sometimes when you have a clean slate, you kind of go, gee, well, before I pick up this paintbrush, what might I draw if I was able to draw something or paint if I was able to paint it completely? And so it's important to recognize that. And I allowed myself to have a clean slate, which in hindsight, I was proud of at the time, too. 

It wasn't the first job I had left. The first time I did it. I didn't allow myself a clean slate. I jumped from one thing to the next that were probably both were very related. I didn't let myself think outside the box, whether that was right or wrong at the time. This time, I let myself think outside the box. The other thing I did was I allowed myself to lean into my support structures, even though I did it after the fact, rather than before I left the job. 

And in that context, I've got parents. Luckily for me, I've got parents. They're both supportive. They're still in my life. And at the time, my dad said, well, why don't you check out some of the stuff that I'm sort of more involved with while you continue your pathway that you're on, and you'll definitely find something else. I mean, I was capable at the time. I was employable. Getting a new job wasn't my concern. 

And my dad was, or is now retired, but was at the time one of the leading charity lawyers in Canada. And so I happenstance into working a little bit with my dad on this project. He'd throw something else at me. I'd try something out for him. I'd give him a little bit of my perspective and that built into something over time where eventually, I started actually working full time with them. 

From that point in time, I started learning a heck of a lot about this sort of serious structural enabling world of charitable giving. Right? Not just the nice to dos and the why we do it and that type of conversation. But if you're going to do it, how do you do it? And what are the rules and regulations and such around it? What advice do you give donors? And why? And I really learned that really well. 

So today, I would consider myself a pretty substantive subject matter expert in the world of enabling charitable environments. And I'd never would have gotten there if I hadn't left that job and started working with my dad. The other thing I should say, because he is my dad, this wasn't a, hey, our family's into this, you should become that type of scenario. This was a, I have a job and I love it. And I happen to be your father. If you want to tag along, please do, but I want you to follow your own path. 

So this wasn't like I was developed into being the next generation of whatever my father did. This was a very accidental, very supportive scenario that I got in. I learned a ton about something that's otherwise pretty difficult to learn about. And I was able to figure out how to use that time and space of learning that, which is a four or five or six-year period to think a bit more entrepreneurial about what the sector needed. And that's when I started Charitable Impact. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Before we talk about Charitable Impact in detail, you refer to yourself as a subject matter expert on this, and you've also been paraphrasing a bit, but you used terms about one's journey towards giving and described it as a banking modality, not unlike what felt to me like having a savings account. Like there's this piece to it that is mechanical and transactional. Yet obviously, it's fueled by one's passion for the contributions they're making for a cause they really care about. But so, let's leverage your subject matter expertise here. Tell us -- give us a charitable giving 101 and all the things that our listeners would want to know about it.

John Bromley: 

Gee, where am I going to take that? 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

It's a very open-ended opportunity for you.

John Bromley: 

Well, so let me answer it this way and you can ask questions from there. Hopefully, it takes your listeners into a certain direction. So why do we give, right? I think, I believe that generosity is innate. And so as humans -- and we're reverse social beings and in a social being environment, you figure out quite quickly that like by supporting others, you get something in return. And if you need help, you want to be helped. And so it makes some sense to help other people. 

Helping others in certain scenarios makes everything around us and in our communities, generally speaking, better and more supportive. So I think giving is the sort of natural thing and it's a cool thing to do. And actually, I think a lot of people do it a lot, whether they recognize it or not. 

When it comes to charitable giving, it's not always this proactive thing that we do. Oftentimes, it's reactive. So someone's -- charities out there raising their money and they're coming after us almost like a sales objective and they ask us for money and we sort of react and we say yes or no. What my experience has taught me that not everyone has to agree with is that the donors who are most proactive about pursuing things that they really genuinely care about themselves become the best donors over time. And those of us who just react to a fundraising ask and say yes or no don't necessarily develop into the best donors. 

And generally speaking, the reason is because one is kind of a response to a sales promotion. I'm being a bit cynical when I say that, but one's a bit of a response to the sales promotion. And so you're sort of brought into it and you're reacting to it. And you feel good for a moment, but you're not necessarily dedicated to, or even interested in, what you're giving to. 

And the other is more of a life pursuit, where you're like, I'm really interested in, name the cause, and I read about it, and I think about it and maybe it's impacted me or my friends or my community in a way that's personal to me. And here are the things that I'm really interested in doing. And kind of like exercise or playing a sport or being a subject matter expert in anything, you go along this journey, and it becomes a part of your life. 

And when that happens, you're kind of more of a sustainable, engaged, interested donor. And those people are really, really great. And so Charitable Impact, without jumping into it too much, we want to develop more of that latter type of donor.  

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Okay. So let's dive into it. So you learned all of this great stuff from your dad and you said, I want to do something more entrepreneurial in this space. And so Charitable Impact then is the baby of that, the genesis of that. So let's get granular. Tell us exactly how Charitable Impact works, how it's facilitated more than $1.2 billion in donations, and let's go. I'm excited to hear about this. 

John Bromley: 

Well, Dr. Richard, you actually did a great job describing it just a minute ago when you sort of said it's this sensation of a savings account. What it's referred to as that is what's called a donor advised fund. So Charitable Impact is a donor advised fund. So what's a donor advised fund? It's an account. It's a given account for the donor. So they get their own account. 

So here's how it works. If you want to donate money, you can also give time and use your talent to give stuff to step away too. But if you want to give money, you make a donation of your money into your account, and you're issued the charitable tax suit right away. From that point in time, you now have money in your account that must be spent charitably. 

And so the question is, how are you going to use that money to create change in the world. And Charitable Impact says, well, here's all the registered charities in Canada. Here's all the ways you can spend the money charitably in a Canadian context, and so it's up to you. So just kind of where it's kind of like having a savings account is you have your own account you can put money in and then you can take some time and space to think about how you most want to use it. 

And really, the only restrictions on how you can use money in a savings account is related to the law of the land. And that's the same as a donor advised fund. Just, there's more restrictions because you've already been issued a tax receipt. So the money must be spent charitably. But other than that initial restriction, whether you send it to Charity A or Charity B or a little bit of Charity A and a little bit to Charity B, or whether you try to learn more about Charity A and Charity B and just not do anything while you think about it, all of those options are open to the donor. 

And we think it's important that that type of tool exists because so much of the charity sector is run by charities and then they come to donors. And so the question becomes, well, who's really working for the donor to help them develop into the donor that they want to be and or can be. And when we looked at that in Canada, and anyways, we said, gee, there's really not a lot of places for donors to go, to get access to tools and advice and services that really is about helping them achieve their goals. And so we started Charitable Impact. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

And another element of this that I was thinking about as you were talking, I get a gazillion texts, emails, and robocalls from people who say they're from a particular nonprofit organization. And because of the world we live in, I don't usually trust that they are actually representing who they say they are. Right? 

And so then you as a potential donor are left with, okay, well, I have to do some due diligence, which takes time and energy to find out if this is a legit organization. Are they really just trying to scam me? Like, what's happening here? But you've already curated that. So people on this platform know that who they're donating to, wherever they choose to put that money is a reputable 501c3 or whatever the Canadian distinction of that is up there, right?

John Bromley: 

Very well done. Correct. Yeah. So you don't necessarily know that it's an effective charity, but whatever that might mean to you, that's a really subjective issue, by the way, but you necessarily know. You're absolutely right, Dr. Richard. You necessarily know that the charity is registered, that it's in good standing, it still exists, and the government says this is still a 501c3. In Canada, we just call them registered charities. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

So, here's my big question for my American listeners. When is Charitable Impact coming to the United States? 

John Bromley: 

Well, we have aspiration to go into other countries. And being our friendly neighbors, the United States is definitely a clear place to consider going. Having said that, to be honest, I don't have a date for you. I can't tell you when it's coming down to the United States. 

What I will say is that there are a number of very good donor advised funds in the United States and donor advised funds that have a similar ethos to Charitable Impact, which is that you don't have to be a multi gazillionaire in order to be a donor. So there are a number of donor advised funds that are very inclusive of average income people who just want to make a dent contributing towards things that they care about changing, but might only have $50 a month or $100 a month to give. So I would encourage your listeners in the United States to check some of those out.

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Well, I love that. And, again, I just continue to spin my wheels and think about what are the ripple effects of doing this. And by essentially conditioning yourself to be doing this on a regular basis, there's all these other side benefits you get like, I think would be really need to be able to involve your kids and say, okay, and let each kid discover a topic or a cause that they really care about, and then do research together as a family and say, oh, today we want to save platypuses or platypi. I don't actually know. 

But the point being is that it's more than just the way you describe charitable giving initially was you're hit up by a charity, right? They're doing a fundraising initiative, or you didn't say this, but the other common way is you go to one of these black-tie galas, right? And the charities are just hoping to give you free food, or it's a high price ticket and some money goes to the charity, but that's like a one and done thing. This is a way of perpetually integrating giving, even during a time when money's tough for a lot of people, but they can still make change that fits within what's right for them. So I love this, John. I think this is terrific. 

John Bromley: 

So I love that comment. And one of the things, I mean, you might want to respond to, or I love to know what you think. But so often people say you talk about what are the spillover effects of this type of stuff. And so often when that question comes up in the charitable sector, rightfully, people go to the impact it has on the cause that you're giving to, and they look for the impact of effectiveness, and here's the change that's being created, et cetera. And I think that's really, really important. Okay. 

But what's missed in that analysis and what else is going on, particularly with the donor themselves, like what change is and spillover effects is happening within their own personal life and world when they participate in contributing towards something they care about. We have three beliefs at Charitable Impact. I'll just run through them really quickly for you. And the last one is the one I want you to pay attention to. It's what I'm talking about here. 

So the first thing we believe is that everyone has something they care about creating change for in the world. Like everybody cares about something changing the world. The second belief is that you have something to give towards that change, creating that change, right? So you've got something you care about and you've got something to give towards that, whether it's your time, your talent, your money. And the third belief we have is that when you give, you get something in return yourself. 

And this isn't meant to sort of be a treatise on selfishness. It's meant to recognize that when we participate in things that are of interest to us, what we find meaning in, get purpose from, our lives get richer, and that's a cool thing. And that's one of the things I think is really important to get engaged in donors. Because then, once you feel that and you see that, you might do it a little bit more. A little bit like when I exercise, I feel a bit stronger, I feel a bit more flexible. Though, not withstand it can be a pain in the butt to go and exercise every now and again, I'm going to do it because I believe it's good for me. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

I mean, the whole premise of this show, and we started it seven years ago, was to get people to commit acts of kindness because there is undeniably data that has been replicated across cultures, across countries over time that shows that there are really good physiological things that happen to our body when we do good things for other people. 

And so what you're talking about, and the spillover effect is, yeah, it's a feeling that is so important for us to have. We are just -- as human beings, we are neurobiologically pre-dispositioned to feel good when we help other people, period. Like, drop the mic. So this is a way of automatically adding that into our lives, which is amazing because it's a pretty stressful world out there. So the more that we have things like this to emotionally shield us from whatever else is coming at us that we can't control, that's a pretty cool thing. And I celebrate you for doing what you're doing. 

John Bromley: 

Oh, thank you. So, yeah, I knew you guys, on this, related to your podcast here would recognize that, but I think it's just so important. And all I really want is for people to recognize it and talk about it a little bit more. It's not to take anything away from the impact side. And actually, those two things are related. And it's not always just about patting yourself on the back. It's about recognizing that there are benefits to our physiology and our mind and our mindset when we do these things. And let's just celebrate those. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Absolutely. John, I have loved our time together. As you know, I wrap up every episode by asking my guest a single question and that is what is your biggest helping, that one most important piece of information you'd like somebody to walk away with after hearing our conversation today?

John Bromley: 

Well, let's end on a note similar to what we just talked about. Everyone listening to this podcast cares about something changing and I really want to encourage everyone listening just to take some time and think about what that is. Identify a short list of what that is and push yourself as to whether or not it's truly genuine. And then just take some small steps to do something about creating some change for that. 

And when you do, you're going to feel great about yourself and you're going to see some impact around you. You're going to meet some new friends. You're going to have some fun with life. And when you're thinking about a tool to help you get through that journey, if this is a charitable thing that we're talking about, really, I encourage you to take a look at a donor advice fund, because it is a tool that's built for you as the donor.

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Beautifully said. John, tell us where people can learn more about you and your entity online, Charitable Impact. 

John Bromley: 

Yeah, thank you. So we're Charitable Impact. You can find us online at charitableimpact.com. And we're on all the social medias as well at @WeAreCharitable. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Awesome. And we will have links to everything Charitable Impact in the show notes at drrichardshuster.com. Well, John, thank you for spending some time with us today. I love our conversation. I love what you're doing. Keep doing it. Keep making that big change in the world. 

John Bromley: 

Thank you, Dr. Richard, for having me and for doing what you're doing. Appreciate having the chance to be here.  

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

I'm grateful. And to those of you who took time out of your day to listen to this conversation, I appreciate you too. If you're moved, if you're inspired, if you're going to go look up ways you can make an impact today, do that. That's awesome. But also give us a follow and a five-star review on your podcast app of choice because that is what helps other people find this show. 

Most importantly, however, go out there today and do something nice for somebody else, even if you don't know who they are and post in your social media feeds using the hashtag #MyDailyHelping because the happiest people are those that help others.