346. Embracing the Wild: How Shelby Stanger's Adventures Inspire Personal Growth and Fearlessness

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Shelby Stanger: 

In interviewing all the adventurers, I've interviewed hundreds, maybe thousands, kindness is a game changer. It will get you out of a jam. It will help you on your way. It will bring you trail magic. It will just change your life.

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Hello and welcome to The Daily Helping with Dr. Richard Shuster, food for the brain, knowledge from the experts, tools to win at life. I'm your host, Dr. Richard. Whoever you are, wherever you're from, and whatever you do, this is the show that is going to help you become the best version of yourself. 

Each episode, you will hear from some of the most amazing, talented, and successful people on the planet who followed their passions and strived to help others. Join our movement to get a million people each day to commit acts of kindness for others. Together, we're going to make the world a better place. Are you ready? Because it's time for your Daily Helping.

Thanks for tuning into this episode of The Daily Helping Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Richard. And our guest today is just awesome. Her name is Shelby Stanger. She is passionate about how we can use the power of adventure to improve our mental wellbeing. She's a journalist turned podcaster whose work has literally been everywhere from outside magazine to CNN to ESPN to the San Diego Tribune. In 2016, Shelby started the Wild Ideas Worth living podcast to dive deeper into stories of how adventure and nature changes us.

This podcast is now owned by REI and Shelby who's interviewed hundreds of adventurers, remains the host and creator of the show. She's also a sought-out speaker. She's spoken to organizations like Creative Mornings, the Girl Scouts of America, NPR, and TEDx. She's often chasing adventure herself. She surfed from Canada to Costa Rica, sandboard, I don't even know what sandboarding is. We have to talk about that. Sandboarded down Desolate Dunes in Cape Town, paddled down to a remote portion of the Amazon, and interviewed countless CEOs, athletes, activists, and thought leaders. There's so much more I could talk about, but I just want to dive in. Shelby, welcome to The Daily Helping podcast. It is awesome to have you with us today. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Dr. Richard, thanks for having me on. I love your story. I love your energy. I love that you help people. That's awesome.

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Well, I only talk to people who help people. So you help people too. So you are awesome. And I want to do this. I want to jump into the Shelby Stanger time machine. Let's hit our, what is it, 1.2 gigawatts. 

Shelby Stanger: 

I’m scared.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

Yeah. No, it's getting scary. But I want to go back in time, and I want you to tell us your superhero origin story. What put you on the path that you're on today? 

Shelby Stanger: 

I've always loved adventure. I grew up playing soccer when I was a little girl, but there was something about outdoor sports, especially surfing that did something for me that nothing else did. And when I was a little girl, like a lot of us, there was some family trauma. My dad died suddenly of heart attack when I was 11. And I learned really young that life is short and that you're not guaranteed tomorrow. And I actually started surfing after that. 

And my mom's a social worker. She believed in therapy and talking about things, which is awesome. But I got a lot of answers in the water that I never got in land. And just sitting out there was some sort of meditation, but it almost was like it tripped me into meditation because when you're surfing, you're having fun. There's dolphins. There's joy. It's playful. There's cute guys. There's the smell of wax on your surfboard. It's hard. It's novelty. No wave is the same. 

And I think all of that is just incredibly healing. And one of the biggest things about surfing, as all sports that are outside, unlike soccer, is there's a lot of chances to experience this radical emotion, awe. And that's an emotion that I think scientists are studying more and more. But there's no emotion that can do more for me than awe does and like you can't take a pill that does what awe does for you. So awe is what happens when you're surfing and you see a dolphin leap all of a sudden, or you're on a walk in the woods and you see a snake or a bright, amazing Redwood tree or you just see a beautiful sunset and it stops you in your tracks. 

So before you're having a bad day, or maybe you're stuck in traffic, or you're fighting with your boss or your spouse, and you see something that evokes awe, your mood changes instantly. You immediately stop. You often soften. You become more relaxed. You sort of feel like small and yet more connected to other people around you at the same time. And most of all, your ability to get out of your own way so you can pursue whatever you want to do in your life without resistance immediately increases. And so, for me, surfing was just this thing to experience off. You asked me what I did, and I started going into my TEDx talk. Sorry. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

We'll link to that in the show notes. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Yeah. I mean, basically, until I was just obsessed with adventure. And I went to school for journalism at Emory in Atlanta, Georgia. I was covering race and crime and all sorts of stuff. And really, all I wanted to do was cover surfing. And I convinced the local newspapers in San Diego, where I lived to let me write an adventure and surfing column. And they did. And it was so cool. And I've been trying to chase that job ever since, but I could never get someone to pay me to do it, so I took other jobs. 

I did marketing for Vans, the shoe company. It was awesome. I quit Vans in ‘09 at the height of the recession, which was kind of dumb financially to be a journalist again. And I started covering stories for outside magazine and ESPN. I moved to Costa Rica. I became a surf instructor, which my mom was like, really, I sent you to Emory and you became a surf instructor. 

But all these things led me to eventually start a podcast in 2016 called Wild Ideas Worth Living, which was basically about the same things I wrote this adventure surfing column for the newspapers when I was 19. It was about people chasing wild ideas that were unconventional out in nature, taking a different path in life. And healing themselves and making a difference in other people's lives and having awesome careers. 

And the podcast ended up getting picked up by REI Co-op. I pitched it to them. They didn't just like randomly call me. And they licensed the show. And then in 2020, they ended up buying the show outright, and I'm still the host. And it's been awesome. That led to a book, that led to a TEDx talk, that kind of led me to sitting with you today. So there's a lot there.

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

There it is, right? That's the last teen years of your life, all wrapped up into three minutes, but I like that, that adventure spirit was there. And you said, and I read this in your book, you have this awesome job at Vans. You loved the people. You loved the company.

Shelby Stanger:

Loved it. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:

But there was a little voice inside of you telling you, this wasn't it. And so you left an amazing job at a time where amazing jobs weren't really easy to find because what was going on in the global economy, but you're now doing what you love and helping so many people. So let's, I want to spend some time and talk about your newest book, Will to Wild, right? So you said that the show, it kind of led to the book, but tell us, like, what was really the inspiration for writing it? 

Shelby Stanger: 

I read a lot of adventure books. Like, I read a lot because I get a lot of adventure authors who pitch me, and I love reading about adventure. But what I kept seeing through the podcast is there was this theme that no one was talking about. And that was how to actually pull off an adventure, what to do when things go wrong. And the other thing people weren't talking about was like the mindset of adventure and what happens when you're finished, which a lot of people go out and they do these big adventures. And there's this kind of like post-adventure depression, similar to what happens when Olympians go to the Olympics. They just did this giant thing, or someone sells their business, and like now what? 

But another thing people weren't talking about was the fact that adventure could be used just like all sorts of self-help modalities are being used to improve people's lives. So I wanted to talk about adventures, big adventures, like climbing Everest to small adventures, like going outside and boogie boarding with the grandmas who boogie board and have a boogie board club. That could really make a difference in people's lives. Even making a commitment to just watch the sunrise or the sunset every morning. And I also wanted to get into the science of it. 

And then I'm not a huge reader. Like I have a little bit of ADD. I kind of want to go outside and surf a lot. So I wanted to include like little short boxes at the end of each chapter that were like guides. Like if you want to just read this part, read this, this is what to do because I think we live in a world where there's a lot of decision fatigue. We have so many decisions to make every single day. And I was like, I just want something that tells me what to do or the best practices. 

And so it's a culmination of having interviewed adventures since I was 20 years old, best practices with really funny stories, and some emotional stories, just the stories that most resonated with me. It's part memoir, and it also has advice from some of the adventures I've interviewed. And my story is pretty raw and real, and there's parts that are vulnerable. There's parts that will make you laugh. There's parts where I might use the word penis. And it's all good. 

But I think humor is one of the best tools that you need when you go pursue an adventure. So I tried to weave that throughout and there's some surprising stories. So yeah, I'm glad you got to read some of the book.

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Yeah, the humor is definitely there in terms of tone throughout what I read, and I love that. But it's interesting because a lot of times I'll have guests on the show who are talking about how to take your life to the next level, how to start a business, these things like that involve really huge leaps, right? Either a leap of faith or like with you, like, you left a dream job, basically, to go after what made your heart sing. And so, as I thought about that, there's really a ton of parallels between adventuring and following your life's true path, right? Because most people don't pop out of the womb, and they're on that path. Usually, they have some sort of an existential crisis, or something happens to them, or there's a fork in the road. However it occurs, to where somebody has one of these moments where they say, I have to make a choice. 

And so, as you're talking about using humor to diffuse tense moments, you're talking about that sense of awe, which people who are living their dream life experience that awe, that wonderment, all the time. So that's why I think this book is so cool because it's a very refreshing and unique take on something that's applicable to really anybody in their lives. So what I want to do is let's take a deeper dive, Shelby. And so talk us through, obviously, we can't do all the chapters. So, but let's talk about, let's do Adventure 101. Let's start there. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Adventure 101. Well, I think you said something earlier that I just want to bring up real quick. A lot of people wait to make a change in their life. Like something happens to them that's bad, and it's a pattern interrupt. Something changes their life that they have to make a change. And I think adventure is a choice to have a pattern interrupt in your life. A lot of cultures have rituals. Like Messiah culture, when kids turn 18, a lot of them have to like go kill a lion. You do something like that, you're going to change. 

I'm not saying we should all go kill lions, but I think making a conscious choice to go do something out of your comfort zone, outside in nature where there's so much healing benefits, changes you. Whether you want it to or not, you're going to have an experience. And we just have to do that. We have to have pattern interrupts in our lives because right now our lives are really predictable, especially now, today, more than ever. 

So Adventure 101, go outside. That's all you have to do. Go outside. Go outside in nature. Look at birds. Look at your plants, garden. It doesn't have to be big. You do not have to climb Mount Everest. I am never going to climb Mount Everest. I just don't care. I don't want to. That's okay. But if you go outside and you climb a hill or do something just a little uncomfortable, maybe take a trip after work at night to go look at stars, look up, you will not be able to not feel small and awe at the same time, it will change you. It will change you just a little bit. And it's a beautiful thing. What else do you want about Adventure 101? I don't know what you're looking for. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

No. I think this is good stuff because it's a starting point. And so, yeah, I don't expect people listening to this for like, you know what, after work, Mount Kilimanjaro, your ass is mine, right? Like, we're not talking about that, but you're saying just get out there to nature. And actually, there was an article that I did with NBC talking about the physiological benefits and the psychological benefits of going to the beach. 

So there are absolutely tons of data done by research done by scientists looking at what happens to your body and your mind when you get in these cycles, like the water in particular in, and you’re a surfer so you get this. There's the rhythmic piece of the ocean, that rhythm, our bodies do so well with that. All right. The negative ions that are released from the ocean, the salt in the air are amazing for us in terms of our response to anxiety. So there's so many health benefits to going outside.

But adventure, though, adventure, just the word adventure tends to lend itself to something that has a little bit of danger, a little bit of a fear component. So let's talk about the fear component because for a lot of people, the adventure, A.K.A, the thing in their life that they really want to go after, but they're too afraid to go after, there's a hell of a lot of fear associated with that, right? So talk to us, and I know you have a chapter, it's chapter 8 if I'm not mistaken, on fear. So talk to us about from an adventurer standpoint, how you deal with fear. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Fear is really good. Like, adventures want fear. It keeps us from falling off, jumping off cliffs, falling off cliffs and dying. But sometimes we have to like take our fear with a grain of salt and we have to develop a better relationship with our fear. And I think when we can conquer our fear outside in nature, it allows us to conquer like the scary things that are on land, whether it's quitting a job and going after your dream job or ending a relationship that no longer serves you.

So I don't know. Fear in nature is absolutely real, but it gives us a really fun platform to conquer fear. So like, it's a lot easier for me to go surf a wave that scares me than sometimes have a difficult conversation with someone I love. If I go conquer that fear outside in the ocean and finally catch a wave that scares me, that builds courage like nothing else. And then I can take that to the conversation I have with a person that I know is going to be difficult to have. So that's kind of how I approach fear. 

Fear is really just lack of knowledge. You have to have fear. It's good, but you're not going to get over your fear until you actually go do the thing that makes you scared. And there's a lot of little tactics I've used to deal with fear. One is, especially when it comes to surfing, sing a song. The other is to have a little mantra. 

And then the last thing is, I always remember this cartoon I once saw. It was a guy jumping off into a pool off of a high dive. And in the first image, the pool is empty. So if he jumps, he's going to die. The second image, the pool has a ton of sharks. The third image, there's an angry mob waiting for him. And the fourth image, he jumps and he's like, that wasn't so bad. 

So I think the scary thing with adventure, the scariest thing is starting. Starting is always the hardest part, but once you start, you're on your way. And for me, surfing was always the scariest thing, especially surfing bigger waves. And I don't really surf huge waves. I just surf them like a little over my head. Everybody has a different barometer for fear and what they find scary or not. Some people think that the waves I surf are not scary at all, but I'm a little scaredy cat. And for me, like actually going out in bigger surf, getting knowledge about it and doing it just built so much courage in me and it changed my life. 

The other thing about it is like, you either paddle out in the ocean and you go try, this is what will happen, you might fall, you might break your surfboard, you might bump your head. But if you stay on the sand and watch, all you're going to get is sunburn and have this like wonder if for the rest of your life. And so sometimes you just have to paddle out, get wet. Sometimes you catch the ride of your life. Sometimes you catch a ride, and you just fall, but at least you went out and paddled out. And I think that metaphor applies to life. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

It totally does. There's actually a few metaphors that are coming to my mind, but as I think about this through the lens of a psychologist, and we look at this through cognitive behavior theory, they talk about how we catastrophize, right? And --

Shelby Stanger: 

I catastrophize. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:

But we all catastrophize. And often, our minds naturally take us through the worst case scenario. Right? But when we actually stop and ask ourselves, what is the worst thing that's going to happen, it's actually not as scary, right? Like you said, you paddle out. What's the worst thing that's going to happen? You're going to fall off the surfboard. Maybe if you're in shallow water, you might skin your knee on sand or rocks or something. But are you likely to be eaten by sharks? Probably not, right? Or the Loch Ness Monster or something ridiculous, right? 

So the fear is usually so overblown. And once we actually just get out and do it, as you said, paddle out, right? It's so much easier and we see, oh, not too bad. Now, there's something that I wanted to ask you, because you mentioned having a song, having a mantra. Tell us about that. Tell us how that helps defuse fear. 

Shelby Stanger: 

I mean, in 2009, when I quit my job, I got invited on this boat trip and there happened to be this amazing Hawaiian waterman who's like literally linked to Hawaiian royalty. And I kept falling off my board and getting held underwater. And in Indonesia, these waves were much more powerful than they were in San Diego. And I was like, Brian, every time I get held under water, I get so scared. And he's like, oh, sing a song. I was like, okay, that sounds simple enough, I'll sing a song. 

So, on the boat, there had been an old Don McLean song that had been playing. And it's called Bye Bye Miss American Pie. The problem is, is the only lyrics that got stuck in my head were --

Dr. Richard Shuster:

This will be the day that I die. 

Shelby Stanger: 

This will be the day that I die. Oh, this will be the day that I die. Which is a terrible song to think about when you're being held underwater. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:

Right. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Worrying about dying. She's like, oh, pick a different song. So I looked up and I saw sun and I was like, you are my sunshine, my only sunshine. It takes you out of your head. It's another pattern interrupt. And so you're not thinking about dying. You're thinking about singing this song. It's really just meditation. It's just getting your mind to focus on the present moment by singing a song, ideally a happy song. That will be the day that I die. And it's really helpful. 

I mean, look, all of science and meditation, Eastern, Western, it all tells us to focus on the present moment, however you get there. When you're surfing on a wave, you really don't think about anything else, but like trying not to fall off your board, and staying on the board. You're not thinking about your past waves. You're not thinking about your future waves. Otherwise, you will fall, which is why surfing is a meditative sport. You're forced to be present. 

That's why rock climbing, if you're not focusing on the present moment while rock climbing, you're going to die. Like you have to be present. This is why we're so addicted sometimes to these sports. And when you sing a song, you also are focused on the present moment. So the song is just a trick to get you to be in the present moment.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

I love this. So it makes perfect sense. And what you said as well about rock climbing surfers, people when they have to, we have research from Navy Seals on this, right? They enter flow states because they get so engaged in what they're doing that they're just, they're kind of like Neo, right? They're just doing their thing and it's automatic. So this is awesome. 

Okay. We don't have a ton of time left, but I want to throw this to you. Pick one more chapter. Okay. Pick your favorite chapter. I know that you love them all but pick your favorite chapter. And let's talk a little bit about its contents and then we'll wrap it.

Shelby Stanger: 

I think my favorite chapter is Starting Lines. And I interview a bunch of different people. Well, one of the guys I interviewed was a sailor, a couple that sailed to Tahiti. Another guy was a guy who was going through cancer and decided to climb the Grand Tetons. 

And I think what I learned in that chapter is that starting lines are way more important than finish lines. It doesn't really matter if you finish at all. That's not the important part. Adventure is all about the journey, but getting to the starting line is really hard. We will psych ourselves out. We will talk ourselves out of it. 

And that chapter has some really good advice from people from really different walks of life on how they got to the starting line for their adventures and their adventures are big and their adventures are small, but that's the most important part I think in the book. And I think it's like chapter 6. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

So as you were able to interview these people and you said how they got to the starting line was very different, what are some of the tentpole messages that you took away from that that you could share with us?

Shelby Stanger: 

Well, I think the biggest thing is like a sailor said it best, you can either be the sailor that unties the dock lines or not. You can stay tethered to shore forever and you can be unready forever if you let yourself be. And the truth is you're never going to be as ready and as sure as you want to be. I think people say a lot, I don't have kids, but a lot of parents are like, you're never ready for kids. Your body builds capacity as you do it. You have to do your best to get as much knowledge as you can and be as prepared as you can. Obviously, you want to be safe. That's really important in any adventure. I do not advocate irresponsible adventuring, but it's like starting a business. Like eventually you have to start your business. You can't just keep writing and refining your business plan. And I think that's really hard for a lot of people knowing when to actually do that. 

And I think the sailors were a really interesting example because one of the sailors has muscular dystrophy, meaning if he falls off the boat, the consequences are much higher for him because he can't exactly swim himself back to the boat as easy as he had when he had muscles. And so they had to adapt to the boat. They tinker with it. But the truth is, people have been sailing and like, what in just like ships with a sale on it before his time. You don't need all the latest gear and gadgets. You just need to have gear that kind of works, works and then go. It's not kind of works. You need gear that works and then you just need to go.

 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

I love this. So there's an analogy I had another guest on and he wrote a book and it was just called Start Ugly. 

Shelby Stanger: 

I love that. And yes, start ugly and messy.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

You just go. And you're going to -- you’ll course correct along the way to use the sailing analogy. Right? Like, if the winds are going a different direction, you'll pivot. Right? And you'll ship the sales to catch the winds but -- 

Shelby Stanger: 

I'm going to steal that, start ugly. I love that. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Yeah, it's not mine, but I'm sure he wouldn't care. But yeah, I think there's so many people, we're waiting for the stars to align. And whatever that decision is, whether it's quitting a job, starting a business, ending your relationship, whatever that is, oh, it wouldn't be a good idea to bridge this conversation because of X or I need to wait until why. Just go. 

Shelby Stanger: 

It's never a good time. That's the truth. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:

It's never a good time. Man, I have really enjoyed spending time with you today, Shelby, your energy, your enthusiasm. So as you know, I always wrap up by asking my guests a single question and that is what is your biggest helping, Shelby, that one most important takeaway you'd like somebody to walk away with after hearing our conversation today?

Shelby Stanger: 

I don't have just one, but there's two things. One, go outside in nature as often as you can and breathe. And the second is, is be kind. In interviewing all the adventurers I've interviewed, hundreds, maybe thousands, kindness is a game changer. It will get you out of a jam. It will help you on your way. It will bring you trail magic. It will just change your life. 

And kindness is really an important part of adventure and that's not just being kind to other people and kind to animals and trees, but as being kind to yourself. Like we can all be really hard on ourselves, and you have to laugh at yourself on the way. You're going to look ugly sometimes when you're surfing. You're going to have a wedgie. Your bikini is going to be up your booty and your boob might be hanging out and you got to learn to laugh. Be kind to yourself. Be kind to others. Get outside and have fun. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Love it. Well, you'll definitely like the close of our show, but that's such good advice. Shelby, tell us where people can learn more about you online.

Shelby Stanger: 

I'm easy to find. I'm at shelbystanger.com and I'm on instagram at @ShelbyStanger. That's S-H-E-L-B-Y-S-T-A-N-G-E-R. And the podcast I host is called Wild Ideas Worth Living. It's presented by REI Co-op Studios. I have another podcast called Vitamin Joy about mental health and humor. It's been on pause, but there's some evergreen old content that you can listen to anytime. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Awesome. Well, we will have links to everything Shelby Stanger in the show notes at drrichardshuster.com. 

Shelby Stanger:

Dr. Richard, you're awesome.

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Well, you're awesome too. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Oh, and I have a newsletter. I forgot. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:

A newsletter. 

Shelby Stanger: 

I'm supposed to tell people to sign up. But you have a newsletter. Newsletters are awesome. 

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

Newsletters are awesome. We'll have that in the show notes too. Shelby, I enjoyed this so much. Thanks for coming on The Daily Helping today. I loved it.

Shelby Stanger: 

Thanks for having me, Dr. Richard. You're amazing.  

Dr. Richard Shuster: 

I appreciate that so much. And I also appreciate each and every one of you who took time out of your day to listen to our conversation. If you liked it, if you're inspired, if you're going to go do an adventure today, go give us a follow and leave us a five-star review on your podcast app of choice, because that is what helps other people find the show. But most importantly, go out there today and do something nice for somebody else, even if you don't know who they are and post in your social media feeds using the hashtag #MyDailyHelping, because the happiest people are those that help others.